Infoman Pele-Mele
Message #1 le 2012-8-13 @ 4:08:26 par Eloctinar:
amusez vous a mettre de l'ordre la dedans
After many iterations now, this question pops up again:
How do loot tables work?
and
How does Magic Find work?[size=large][/size]I´ll try to explain my understanding and pose a few questions on the specific mechanics.
Disclaimer: Everything in here is pure theorycrafting on my accord, based on different games and previous discussions. All values are only chosen to help demonstrate the examples.
Loot Tables
Now, as far as I´ve gathered from previous discussions and from other games including Diablo III the mechanics work as following:
First the game checks if you are going to receive an item. Sometimes this guaranteed such as with chests, otherwise it´s random like you´d have with mobs. Mobs that spawn infinitely such as you´ll find at the start of the Ascalon Catacombs Explorables have their drops disabled to counter farming, also critters.
Question 1: What is the participation requirement for a drop
and does the amount of participation affect the chance of a drop?
Question 2: How does a monster´s rank affect the number and chance of drops?
If an item will drop there is a series of choices that need to be determined. Step by step each property of the item is chosen. For example the first roll would be the type of item: Equipment or Materials. For example:
Equipment 40% chance, Materials 30% chance, Junk 30% chance
In order, a roll is made on equipment. A failure creates a second roll in this table for materials. A second failure here will default to generating junk.
Linsey Murdock said:
Any time you roll positive to try for a dye, it rolls again and if you fail that roll, you get Dandelions. So every time you see a Dandelion, that could have been a dye. It is the only way we could get the dye unlocks to the rarity that we wanted them to be with the system being the way it is.
Kind of like 4 Piles of Glittering Dust in Underworld and Fissure of Woe in GW1, that could have been an Ecto or an Obs shard.
Each time a choice from one table is determined the next is pulled up and the next property is rolled for. More realistic tables would look like:
Initial: [Special, Armor, Weapon, Crafting Material, Trophy, Coins, Junk]
Armor: [Chest, Legs, Helm, Shoulder, Gloves, Boots, Trinket]
Skin: [World type 1, type 2, .. Zone type 1, type 2, .., Creature type 1, type 2, .. ]
HasUpgrade: [Yes, No]
Upgrade: [sigil/rune 1, sigil/rune 2, ..]
Now all that´s left to be determined are the attributes: level, attribute set and rarity. The interesting part here is the rarity roll, as it starts by rolling the highest valued items first:
_ ___Type_____ _Chance____
Legendary 1/1000000
Exotic 1/1000
Rare 1/100
Masterwork 1/10
Fine 1/2
Basic rest
.
Many of these tables are rolled in parallel. The order in which these items are rolled is very important in our next chapter on Magic Find.
Question 3: What loot tables are there exactly and what order are they in?
Question 4: How does a mob´s rank affect the quality of drops?
Magic Find
Each player has a base percentage of 100% magic find which acts as a multiplier of 1 toward each roll. Magic Find can be increased trough specific equipment, upgrade components, food and buffs.
For example you equip an Explorer´s Chestpiece of the Traveler with +3% (Explorer) and +7% (Rune) and eat Strawberries and Biscuits giving you an extra +10%. Your new magic find is now 120%.
With nearly every roll in the loot table this multiplier is applied on the roll. If you would have 200% magic find an item with a chance of 1/1000000 would increase to 2/1000000. Because the rarest item is rolled first the relative chance of each tier stays the same, but you´d have a skewed increase in each chance in favor of the first items.
Item A has 10% chance, item B has 20% chance. Because each roll is executed in sequence and dependent on the previous the global chance of rolling item A is 10%, but for item B it´s 0.90 * 0.20 = 18% chance.
Now we apply a magic find multiplier of 2 by equipping an extra 100% MF. Item A : 20%, Item B : 40%. Global chances still are the same for our first item in the row, but the second item becomes 0.80 * 0.40 = 32% chance. Instead of a 100% increase we now see an increase of 77% toward the global chance of item B.
Question 5: What tables does this multiplier apply to? In other words what does magic find actually affect besides just item rarity?
Examples: Drop chance, # of drops, item type, skin rarity, upgrade component chance, critical gathering chance.
Another really important thing to note is that, because Magic Find is based on percentages you have diminishing returns: every extra MF you apply will be less efficient than the previous.
Say you carry +90% MF for a total of 190%. If you want to double your magic find, a 380% total, it will require an extra +280% MF! It´s easy to forget the base 100%.
Eventually Magic Find boils down to : how much are you willing to sacrifice to improve your drops? Keep in mind that less damage also means killing mobs slower.
(edited 4 days ago by Raven Demeyer)
5 days ago
Quote Report Permalink
Raven Demeyer
Magic Find : the big list
Now where can you get all this bonus magic find? These are the ones I´ve found, feel free to help complete the list:
Equipment :
Explorer armor and weapons have an attribute of +3% MF
Jewelcrafter´s trinkets (based on opal) can get up to +4% MF
Runes :
of Scavenging
Minor : (2x) 3%
Major : (2x) 5%, (4x) 10%
Superior : (?) | + Cond + ?
of the Pirate (Jewelcrafting, created from dubloons)
Minor : (1x) 5%
Major : (1x) 7%, (3x) 13%
Superior : (1x) 10%, (3x) 15%, (5x) 25% | + Might + Parrot
of the Traveler
Minor : (1x) 5%
Major : (1x) 7%, (3x) 13%
Superior : (1x) 10%, (3x) 15%, (5x) 25% | +Vit + MS
of the Noble (Caudecus´s Manor)
Minor : (1x) 5%
Major : (1x) 7%, (3x) 13%
Superior : (1x) 10%, (3x) 15%, (5x) 25% | +Pow + Drakehound
Sigils :
Luck (Jewelcrafting, created from dubloons)
Minor : +0.2% / kill, max 25
Major : +0.4% / kill, max 25
Superior : + 0.6 % / kill, max 25
Jewels
Sunstone Nugget : 1%
Sunstone Lump : 1%
Opal Shard : 2%
Opal Crystal : 3%
Opal Orb : 3%
Dubloons
Copper : 1%
Silver : 2%
Gold : 2%
Platinum : 3%
Food :
Base MF
Lemon Bars : 10%
Strawberries and Biscuts [sic] : 10%
Cherry Almond Bars : 18% | +10% gold
Omnomberry Bar : 30% | +30% gold
While under the effect of a boon
Chocolate Cherries : 12% | 6% duration
Chocolate Omnombery Cream : 20% | 20% duration, 30 min
Gemstore
Magic Find Booster : 50%, 60 minutes
Guild Boosts
Magic Find Banner : 10%, 30 minutes | req T1 economy
Magic Find Boost : 10%, 3 days | req T3 economy
WWW
Outmanned (2 or 3x (???) as many enemies as allies in the map) : 33%
Please send any updates to me. If you´ve got info on what boosts stack and not please share!
After many iterations now, this question pops up again:
How do loot tables work?
and
How does Magic Find work?[size=large][/size]I´ll try to explain my understanding and pose a few questions on the specific mechanics.
Disclaimer: Everything in here is pure theorycrafting on my accord, based on different games and previous discussions. All values are only chosen to help demonstrate the examples.
Loot Tables
Now, as far as I´ve gathered from previous discussions and from other games including Diablo III the mechanics work as following:
First the game checks if you are going to receive an item. Sometimes this guaranteed such as with chests, otherwise it´s random like you´d have with mobs. Mobs that spawn infinitely such as you´ll find at the start of the Ascalon Catacombs Explorables have their drops disabled to counter farming, also critters.
Question 1: What is the participation requirement for a drop
and does the amount of participation affect the chance of a drop?
Question 2: How does a monster´s rank affect the number and chance of drops?
If an item will drop there is a series of choices that need to be determined. Step by step each property of the item is chosen. For example the first roll would be the type of item: Equipment or Materials. For example:
Equipment 40% chance, Materials 30% chance, Junk 30% chance
In order, a roll is made on equipment. A failure creates a second roll in this table for materials. A second failure here will default to generating junk.
Linsey Murdock said:
Any time you roll positive to try for a dye, it rolls again and if you fail that roll, you get Dandelions. So every time you see a Dandelion, that could have been a dye. It is the only way we could get the dye unlocks to the rarity that we wanted them to be with the system being the way it is.
Kind of like 4 Piles of Glittering Dust in Underworld and Fissure of Woe in GW1, that could have been an Ecto or an Obs shard.
Each time a choice from one table is determined the next is pulled up and the next property is rolled for. More realistic tables would look like:
Initial: [Special, Armor, Weapon, Crafting Material, Trophy, Coins, Junk]
Armor: [Chest, Legs, Helm, Shoulder, Gloves, Boots, Trinket]
Skin: [World type 1, type 2, .. Zone type 1, type 2, .., Creature type 1, type 2, .. ]
HasUpgrade: [Yes, No]
Upgrade: [sigil/rune 1, sigil/rune 2, ..]
Now all that´s left to be determined are the attributes: level, attribute set and rarity. The interesting part here is the rarity roll, as it starts by rolling the highest valued items first:
_ ___Type_____ _Chance____
Legendary 1/1000000
Exotic 1/1000
Rare 1/100
Masterwork 1/10
Fine 1/2
Basic rest
.
Many of these tables are rolled in parallel. The order in which these items are rolled is very important in our next chapter on Magic Find.
Question 3: What loot tables are there exactly and what order are they in?
Question 4: How does a mob´s rank affect the quality of drops?
Magic Find
Each player has a base percentage of 100% magic find which acts as a multiplier of 1 toward each roll. Magic Find can be increased trough specific equipment, upgrade components, food and buffs.
For example you equip an Explorer´s Chestpiece of the Traveler with +3% (Explorer) and +7% (Rune) and eat Strawberries and Biscuits giving you an extra +10%. Your new magic find is now 120%.
With nearly every roll in the loot table this multiplier is applied on the roll. If you would have 200% magic find an item with a chance of 1/1000000 would increase to 2/1000000. Because the rarest item is rolled first the relative chance of each tier stays the same, but you´d have a skewed increase in each chance in favor of the first items.
Item A has 10% chance, item B has 20% chance. Because each roll is executed in sequence and dependent on the previous the global chance of rolling item A is 10%, but for item B it´s 0.90 * 0.20 = 18% chance.
Now we apply a magic find multiplier of 2 by equipping an extra 100% MF. Item A : 20%, Item B : 40%. Global chances still are the same for our first item in the row, but the second item becomes 0.80 * 0.40 = 32% chance. Instead of a 100% increase we now see an increase of 77% toward the global chance of item B.
Question 5: What tables does this multiplier apply to? In other words what does magic find actually affect besides just item rarity?
Examples: Drop chance, # of drops, item type, skin rarity, upgrade component chance, critical gathering chance.
Another really important thing to note is that, because Magic Find is based on percentages you have diminishing returns: every extra MF you apply will be less efficient than the previous.
Say you carry +90% MF for a total of 190%. If you want to double your magic find, a 380% total, it will require an extra +280% MF! It´s easy to forget the base 100%.
Eventually Magic Find boils down to : how much are you willing to sacrifice to improve your drops? Keep in mind that less damage also means killing mobs slower.
(edited 4 days ago by Raven Demeyer)
5 days ago
Quote Report Permalink
Raven Demeyer
Magic Find : the big list
Now where can you get all this bonus magic find? These are the ones I´ve found, feel free to help complete the list:
Equipment :
Explorer armor and weapons have an attribute of +3% MF
Jewelcrafter´s trinkets (based on opal) can get up to +4% MF
Runes :
of Scavenging
Minor : (2x) 3%
Major : (2x) 5%, (4x) 10%
Superior : (?) | + Cond + ?
of the Pirate (Jewelcrafting, created from dubloons)
Minor : (1x) 5%
Major : (1x) 7%, (3x) 13%
Superior : (1x) 10%, (3x) 15%, (5x) 25% | + Might + Parrot
of the Traveler
Minor : (1x) 5%
Major : (1x) 7%, (3x) 13%
Superior : (1x) 10%, (3x) 15%, (5x) 25% | +Vit + MS
of the Noble (Caudecus´s Manor)
Minor : (1x) 5%
Major : (1x) 7%, (3x) 13%
Superior : (1x) 10%, (3x) 15%, (5x) 25% | +Pow + Drakehound
Sigils :
Luck (Jewelcrafting, created from dubloons)
Minor : +0.2% / kill, max 25
Major : +0.4% / kill, max 25
Superior : + 0.6 % / kill, max 25
Jewels
Sunstone Nugget : 1%
Sunstone Lump : 1%
Opal Shard : 2%
Opal Crystal : 3%
Opal Orb : 3%
Dubloons
Copper : 1%
Silver : 2%
Gold : 2%
Platinum : 3%
Food :
Base MF
Lemon Bars : 10%
Strawberries and Biscuts [sic] : 10%
Cherry Almond Bars : 18% | +10% gold
Omnomberry Bar : 30% | +30% gold
While under the effect of a boon
Chocolate Cherries : 12% | 6% duration
Chocolate Omnombery Cream : 20% | 20% duration, 30 min
Gemstore
Magic Find Booster : 50%, 60 minutes
Guild Boosts
Magic Find Banner : 10%, 30 minutes | req T1 economy
Magic Find Boost : 10%, 3 days | req T3 economy
WWW
Outmanned (2 or 3x (???) as many enemies as allies in the map) : 33%
Please send any updates to me. If you´ve got info on what boosts stack and not please share!